
Be the Podcast Guest Hosts Can’t Wait to Have Back
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EPISODE #210: How Do I Know If It’s the Right Time for a Course?
EPISODE #202: 5 Lessons from Our Successful Launch
EPISODE #153: Triple Your Course Sales with Story with Bo Eason
EPISODE #71: Become a Podcast Pitching Pro (Christina’s first guest spot!)
Transcript
Welcome back to another episode of the Course Creation Incubator podcast. I’m your host, Gina Onativia, here to help you get excited about your course creation. Whatever you’re building online, your live workshop cohort group coaching. I want to see you through it. I want to help you launch. And today I’ve got a special guest that we’re bringing back to the podcast after several years.
Because part of the mission of this podcast is to help you build your online program, build up your marketing, and also list, build and really build up an audience that you can attract to help you sell your courses and your programs. And we talk about list building and how do we do it without ads, because ads are great.
However, there’s a learning curve. So a lot of times we talk about more organic strategies here that we can put our energy into. And one of the best ways to list build and my humble course consultant opinion is to do some guesting on podcasts. You’re borrowing from someone else’s audience. You’re getting your expertise out there. It’s a win win.
And I had Christina Lynn Koski on the podcast. Gosh, this was years ago. I will definitely link to that podcast because we went through what’s the best way, best practices in becoming an awesome guests for podcasts. And Christina helps online entrepreneurs, speakers and authors go from best kept secret to go to expert in their niche through being a guest on other people’s podcast.
So there is no better expert, in my opinion, in the industry than Christina, and she has become an Internet friend over the years. We definitely follow each other. We keep tabs on each other. We’re affiliates for each other because I believe in what she says. I believe in her expertise, and she’s really invested not only in students and clients that she consults for, but for everyone out there who’s trying to get into podcast guesting.
So she’s one of my favorite experts to talk to, said, let’s have her back because it’s been so many years since she was on. And what’s different now? AI is different now. And one of the I think best parts of this interview is when Christina talks about how she has transformed the podcast. Guesting arena for the better for us makes it even more convenient for us to put ourselves out there.
And she’s talking about how she uses AI in her business and how to find the podcasts that will really open you up to the audience that you’re looking for. So without further ado, let’s bring Christina on. She has amazing advice for us to help us build an audience that is really going to buy and want what we have to give.
All right. Listen in. Christina, welcome back to the show. Nina, I am so excited to be here. I know before we hopped on, we talked about how I was just listening to the episode that we had done back in true pandemic time, and it made me so just excited to be back on the show and talking with your audience.
It’s going to be awesome. And that is one of my favorite episodes from that season. I remember I referred to that episode again and again because it was such a good way to build up your audience and that’s why you’re back, right? We’re going to talk about how we can build our audiences, how we can list build. And first and foremost, since we’re talking about that episode that we did years ago, what’s shifted since then, in your mind, in terms of podcast guesting?
There are multiple things that have shifted and there are multiple things that stay the same tenets, right, that go back to what we originally spoke about. But I think that what’s shifted from that 20, 20, 2021 time is that at that point everyone was kind of listening to a bunch of podcasts. Like we were very like y’all. I think we were just starved for like hearing other people’s like, you know what I mean?
Like, I was like, lately sick of listening to my family alone. I want to go sit and listen to someone else or even care what they’re talking about. I just, like, want to go hear someone else talk. And so I feel like at that point we were really listening to a bunch of shows and we may not be super loyal to necessarily shows.
We were more just like, Let me try this out. A bunch of new shows were coming and a bunch of new shows are still coming out, don’t get me wrong. But I feel like in today’s environment we have like our 4 to 6 shows that we are like very loyal to like, we are like, these are the shows that I really, really love to listen to.
And it doesn’t mean that I’m not going to listen to other stuff, but these are the ones that like week after week I am tuning in and they could be over a variety of topics, right? Like, it doesn’t necessarily have to be just your business life. It could be other things in your life, you know? But you’re kind of like this host I love I really love what they talk about on this show.
I really like how they do it. And so I think we’re also just a lot more discerning as listeners. So even as new shows pop up, we are like we kind of listen to them, but with a more discerning ear. What is this going to be? Something I put in my regular rotation. But man, when we like a host, we lock in.
You know, we are following them on Instagram. We are. I feel like I know them personally and that’s a stat they actually have from like the podcasters association is like 70% of listeners feel like they personally know a host, right? Like that is their friend. Hmm. So you think we’re doubling down now? We’re not kind of grazing as much as we were.
As much, Yeah. Okay, so then how does that change how we approach podcasting then, or reaching out, right? And applying for spots or submitting and submitting and finding. I think what we really need to be looking at now and kind of how we’re we’re looking at that differently is what are the shows that have been around for a while?
What are the shows that aren’t just brand new? And again, that’s not to say you can’t find value listening to a brand new show, but when we are really looking at where to place our clients, we have requirements. They have to have had 40 episodes. There has to be a guarantee they’re on that are a requirement there on that, because then I know that their audience is listening.
Right? And we talked about this on the first episode. It really doesn’t matter to me whether they have a big audience or not, right? If they have a very dedicated audience, but they are listening to them week in and week out. That, to me is a way more valuable audience than someone who is just grazing through a bunch of different shows.
Yeah. Do you find because we do our own research for me to get booked on podcasts and I want to ask you a question in a moment. I find more than ever people like just launching podcasts. There must have been a trend, like everyone wanted to launch a podcast in the last five years, right? And then they just fell off or they put out 12 episodes.
And then what is the magic number ten? There’s like a huge amount of shows that never go beyond ten. Yes. And then I think they realize this is hard or have a lot of work. Yeah. Even with a I because I’m sure you know you’re using a lot of I right. That’s one of the big will definitely talk about that So let’s talk about that I’ll make a note but what let’s just talk about this for a second.
What is it about podcasting that people think this is this is it, right? I’m going to do it ten episodes in, they they abandon ship. I think there’s a couple of factors that go into it. And one is it they see that it works. They see that podcasting works, they listen to podcasts, they get their information from podcasts, or that’s where what they do.
And so they think I can just start a podcast, you know what I mean? Like, they’re just like, Well, why don’t I do this? I can talk about whatever. And it’s almost like parenting in the sense that you just like kind of you’re like, I think I could do that. And then it like, actually happens and you’re like, Oh my gosh, like, this is a lot.
And I mean, we’re talking a different level, obviously. But the the sentiment being the same of like it seems kind of easy. It seems like you’re like, so I just like turn on a mike and then I just like, talk and then I write up and then we go. But the reality is there are a lot of steps.
And Gina, you can obviously talk to this, but there are a lot of things involved in having your own podcast. And so I think that people, they, they start out real strong and then they’re like, this is all this is hold up. This is a lot of work. Like, I don’t know if this is something that I that I want to really commit to or that I want to put the time in.
The other factor that I think leads them to quit is they don’t realize it’s not going to happen overnight. Right. Right. They they think, oh, I’m going to put on a show. Obviously, thousands of people are going to listen to it. I’m going to get a ton of leads, you know, from this, etc.. And that doesn’t happen. That doesn’t happen.
And so then they kind of just say, well, why am I spending all this time? Why am I spend all this energy to do this if I’m not seeing the leads? And just like with guesting, the magic is in the consistency. The magic is in the showing up long term. I love this and you are so good about setting expectations.
I feel because because we’ve talked about working with clients. You’ve worked clients of mine that it be patient, but you wrap up rather quickly. But then you’ve got you’ve got to let it sink in, right? You’ve got the guesting, it’s long tail and it’s long tail and strategy. Exactly. Exactly. You’re committing to this for a year. A year to.
Yeah. Multiple years, right? Yeah. And that’s why when we work with our clients, a lot of times we work with them in a year contract and it’s not because I want them for a year. They must be, you know, it must be like mine for a year. It is because you’re mine for one year. Yeah, it’s more so that we really see the momentum, the back half of that contract.
To your point, we are revving up, we are pitching and we are doing all these things. Within a month or two. So you’re starting to Gast, you’re starting to do these things, but they start to air in mass on the back half of that interview or the back half sorry, of that contract. Yeah. And so by the end of the year, our clients have seen a lot of momentum.
Yeah. So I know in that interview we talk through some of the nuances of how to apply, like how to get yourself out there. Tell me a little bit about I like how are you using your clients in terms of because I know some things are custom, right? Like, hey, you know, a lot of things are absolutely, absolutely.
But let me shut up. How do you use a I boom. We have a we have a couple of different ways that we use it. Gina You’re like, I’m just like, let me keep I’m just going to keep saying it and then we’ll see. Yeah, no, I we have a couple of ways in our business that we use it.
One of the biggest ways that we’ve started using it is to help us come up with new topic ideas. So it isn’t necessarily that I have a, I write topics like I want to be very clear on that, but I absolutely think that it can come up with ideas that we haven’t thought of. And I and I love that I call my chatty beatie chatty.
So if you hear me refer to her through that, that’s my name for her. But we will put in like our preexisting pitch template and maybe a transcript from a client’s interview, maybe their website, right? All these different things, their messaging document that we create, etc.. And we will say, What do you think are ten podcast topics? That would be a good fit for this client?
And we’re not going to use all ten and we’re not even going to take those as inspiration. But there might be three or four or five that we’re like, Man, we haven’t looked at that angle at all. That’s a really cool idea, right? That’s something we haven’t thought about. So I absolutely love that. That’s definitely not something we were doing in 2020, 2021, right?
Where we were able to have that, it was all it was all come out of the old, the old brain, and it still is coming out of the old brain, but with a little bit of help from strategy, which is nice. The other thing that we really use AI for is our research. So we still have some other tools that that we use.
But I love to use strategy and my team does too. We will put in the client again, we will put in their messaging document. So the you know, she knows who we’re looking for and kind of what they’re ideal audiences and then it’ll give us ideas, all right? It’ll give us shows and their shows that we may not necessarily be familiar with.
And that’s the beauty of it right now. Sometimes it’s going to spit out big shows, you know, and we’re kind of like, there are good shows like for us, but they’re they’re huge shows. And we’re like, Yes, thank you. But like, what are some what are some slower the bar a little bit shorter shows than this. Yeah. Yes, exactly what’s kind of in a medium range here but but but that that same listener really in a lot of ways and so we’ll get that information from you.
But the one thing about about her is she lies. So we often have to says like we’ll have to be like, are these real shows that it’s like one thing we have to say or because she will also give us things that are, you know, she’ll be like, I don’t know. You’ll be like, Hey, we have a client they really want to get in front of mom producers, right?
And that’s what they’re really looking for. And Chatty will spit out like ten and three of them aren’t real shows, right? Like, I’ll be like the mom per show. And there’s. And I’ll be like, you know? And then I go and I look and there’s no such show, you know, there there’s not that. And I’ll be like, Did you was this a real show?
It’s like, you got me. So now we like very much have to. Yeah, I know, I know. And it’s strategy because I find it’ll get you so far right. You’ll be like, here’s five great shows, but they’re not giving you links. Like, they’re not like, here’s going to find out here or for the apple pie. So that is actually what I do now all the time.
Okay. That’s how I’ve kind of avoided that. It line to me is I’m like, give me the Apple bypass links or the show me the proof. It should show me that this exists because I want to make sure the other thing I have to say is current shows have to be very specific because it will give me a shows that haven’t been going that are extinct.
They’re great. Yeah, they’re extinct. And so I have to ship it. Okay. But it will differentiate between an active show. Correct. And okay, that’s it. Well it will. It’ll totally be able to do that. And so when I these are these just things we’ve learned over time, right. Is just like prompting it and like, these better be real shows, give us the links and they need to be current right from there.
But it’s a great, great place to to be. If you’re looking for new shows like that is to me, like the one of the ideal ways to be using a AI is to be doing a second brain to give you more research work that you can just be doing on your own. Okay, I love this and I agree about the topic, so I use it for title ideas.
Yes. Topic ideas. Yeah. As a starting point because I talked about we’ve talked about on the show, it gives you like the six figured version, right? Like yes, not, not quite right. Yeah. Okay. You spark something in me check. Exactly. Exactly. You gave me and I this is something I can run with and now get put it into a real topic.
The other thing is, you know, I know you can tell when someone just copy and paste said from GBG. Oh, yeah. And so that’s the other thing is you don’t want to be sending your pitch. And for someone to be like, okay, you obviously just grabbed that off Jackie Beatty and put it on there. Like you didn’t put any thought into this.
Gosh, you literally just took it. Yeah, we talked about that last time about like, lazy pitching. Yeah, but like, the pitches are really lazy now. Why? Why do you think people, few people ever get results from that? Why do they do things like that? Christina And I know what I’m asking for you to crawl. And it’s interesting, guys, but I know, I know.
And and I’m a person I don’t understand because I wouldn’t do that. You would never be like that. Wounds. You write like, I’m just like, How dare you? I, I really think for a lot of people it’s it’s the fact that they’re just like it’s a numbers game right. They just think, well, I just got to send out as many podcasts as I you know, as many pitches as I possibly can and hope for the best.
You know, we we talked about on the last episode, but the spray and pray message. Yes. No, it’s it’s what people really do go for. And unfortunately, it’s also what a lot of pitching agencies do, too, you know, and it’s it’s just the lazy way to do it. Right. And for me, I would always rather be sending less pitches, but at a higher caliber quality, because I know that our our our percentages are going to reflect that.
And I also know that the quality of shows that we get our clients on are going to reflect that as well. Yeah, I agree. I want to ask you a systems question here because we are great as a team about research. I feel like we have some good topics and then our efforts just die. It’s me, I’m the choke hold.
So because sometimes I’ll look at a I’ll look at a pitch and I’m like, I don’t know, let me think. Got it. And then when I think got it, that’s the kiss of death, right? It’s going into the procrastination pile. Is there a system that you can encourage us to use to even pitch a few times a month?
Like is there? Yes. How do we crack this? Yes. But I also want to say this, and you’re not going to love my answer for that. Oh, no. Right. Fine. But you shouldn’t be looking at that at all, then. Oh, yeah, it’s true. You should. Right. Okay. I accept this. Yes. Okay. Because I was like my clients. They’re not.
They’re not watching our pitch. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, you don’t run your pitches by your client forever. I mean, we for good want to be clear. We run like, their initial pitch template by them to make sure everything looks good, you know, etc.. But for the end that if we come up with some new topics, ideas, topic ideas, we’ll run that by them just to make sure they feel good talking about it.
But no, like they would be like, would you? What are you doing? Like if I was to be like, just want you to take a look at these the ten for the week, you know, like they would be like, ah, you know, I hired you to do right? Like, just do it. I actually love this answer. Christina Okay, so get your saying.
Gina Get, get out of that. Step out of it and let them do it. I love it. Yeah, let’s do it. I feel free. I think everyone honestly, I think everyone will feel free by that. So get it out there because ask the person who’s also waiting for the approvals they want to be sent. You know what I mean?
Like, they also just want to be sending them out. So it’s a win win if it’s just you. The thing that I really, really recommend doing is batching the work that you’re doing with pitching. And so I do believe in having that pitch template 80%. And so like that’s what your team will have. You know, the pitch is going to be 80% of the way done, and then they personalize about 20% of that before they send it out.
Right. And so how I do this is when I’m pitching personally for myself, once a quarter, I set aside a full day to two days. And there’s no other meetings happening that day. There’s no discovery calls going on. I am literally blocked out to just be sending pitches. I, i if I haven’t already done research on shows, then that’s when it might take me more like one and a half days.
But if I have already done research on shows, then that’s just going to take me that full day. I’m going to send out, you know, 15, 20 pitches over that time frame. But you also have a tremendous advantage that you live and die in this landscape, right? So, yes. How many podcasts do you listen to in a week that I personally listen to?
Yeah, not all business related, right? That’s fine. Is probably around five plus. If I’m going to be a guest on a show, I’m always listening to an episode of that. Okay, So. And you. Yeah, you were mentioning before we hopped on I you listen to the show. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So how do we come if we want a guest, how do we get more engaged with the podcasting world if we’re not engaged already?
I mean, you kind of hit the nail on the head, which is start listening to podcasts, right? Find some ones that you really, truly like. There are such amazing shows out there. I mean, you know, there’s ones that are more case study based for business owners. There’s ones that are more like leadership and mindset based, right? There’s ones like yours that are very workshop and very like, Hey, this is how we really make this happen, you know, type of thing based.
They’re very instructional in that way. So think about what style you really like. Ask your audience what they listen to, you know, see if you can get some, some new great ideas from them and throw that out there. And by the way, I don’t need you sitting down and doing this during your work hours and writing notes and doing all this and that.
You could be doing this when you take your walk. You could be doing this when you take the kid to school or, you know, things like that when you’re grocery shopping. For me, my time I like was like there was a joke about this, my friends, because we also listen to audio like we have our book club tomorrow night, like, you know, so once a month I’m like, listen to an audiobook.
I am the most productive personal world. When I have an audiobook that I’m trying to listen to because I am doing the laundry, the dishes, like I am doing everything with those and I don’t want anyone talking to me and like I’m making it happen. And that’s kind of what I do with the podcast also is like when I’m doing dishes at night, like I got my podcast and if I’m cooking, you know, I got my I got something in my ears.
So even find those snippets of time in there and just start listening. It doesn’t need to be five shows like Start with one show, two shows that you really like. And you know, you can just kind of go forward from there and then create a habit, right, based on that. So, okay, I I’m guilty as I am listening to an audiobook right now, but I am guilty as anyone of not kind of creating that audio habit.
Yeah. So yeah, when we all do it, we also go through you’re going to go through times when you listen to more than, than others. Right. And that’s also totally okay. If I this last week when I was trying to finish my audiobook, I didn’t really listen any podcast because I was like, I must fill out this exactly like before we have our book club.
So that’s also okay. Like, that’s fine. You know, next week I’ll, I’ll either go back and listen to more or I’ll just kind of be a week behind like that. That’s okay. All right. I love it. Before I let you go, final tip. So I’m in the open. I encourage them. Listen to that other episode we did because some of those some of those tips are timeless.
I feel 100%. So how how to get booked in a more saturated market? I feel like every year, right? Are you thinking like, oh my gosh, how many? How many Corp podcast do we need? But here we are. So in a saturated market, do you have any final tips for us to to get seen? I think, right, Yeah.
Heard exactly. And that way I think that there’s a couple of things I would recommend and one is start looking to your circle. And what I mean by that is it may be that your circle like a mastermind, you’re in or some groups that you’re in, maybe people there have podcasts. So that could be a great place for you to be sourcing some opportunities.
But what I do, my my operations assistant knows as well, because she has to do it for me is if I’m in a group, I will get a list of all the people in that group and then I will find all the podcasts they have been on. Okay. Yeah. So what I do there is I’m like, Can I get an intro to this host?
Can I? Or if I can’t even get an intro, like maybe I don’t know the person, this particular person that well, I will still be able to pitch and say, Hey, I’m in a group with so and so. And I saw she was on your podcast. I loved that. You know, I give like a snippet of what I really liked from that episode, and then I move into the pitch.
So it’s a great place to kind of give yourself more proximity to like a host, right in that way. Yeah. So I think that’s a good one. Another thing that I want to say changed from the the 2020 2021 time we originally talked about was I now value host relationships so much more so interesting. I always have. But what I mean for the client perspect tive okay.
I think a lot of people think I go on a podcast like obviously thousands, you know, hundreds or thousands of people hear me, I get a bunch of leads. This is how this works in my business, right? I then people come in, they become clients. Yeah. And what I have found to be more so true in the past year, six months year is I go on a show with a host, we have a great conversation.
And then after the the show, they hit and on record. I obviously thank them. And then I’m like, Hey, how can I provide value to you? And I come with ideas. Okay, yeah. If they have a membership, a mastermind, something like that, I offer to teach in that group and they take me up on that a lot. And the reason is now they know me.
Yeah. I’m not just a cold person off the streets that they don’t know or a could she actually teach on this and she actually fun to listen to etc.. Now they’re like, okay, yes, my group would like love to have you in and talking about this. The money. A lot of the money I make off podcasting comes in those small groups.
Yeah, yeah. People hear me and those because again they trust that hosts Yeah that they are like okay well she trust them enough to bring them in a group and like, I’m paying to be here like, and learning from this person. Wow. I have made tens of thousands of dollars in the past six months just off that philosophy and keeping that relationship going.
Okay, I love that. And we don’t talk about the business of that that business side enough. And you and I were connecting before we even got on and we’re like, Hey, we’re offering this. Why? Why you’re offering this, right? So I know you got this new service. I love that. Awesome, awesome notes to keep in mind. Great tips.
Where can we learn more about you and what you’re up to now? Christina Yes. Yeah, I would love to have people come find me over at podcast publicity quiz dot com. I have a really fun quiz there and I kind of direct people to the DIY or the done for you. What makes sense for them. Also come on over Instagram, LinkedIn and in either of those places, Instagram is at Publicity X.
Christina I think I’m hilarious because I think you’re hilarious. Thanks Gina. Love to post things on my stories about real life and also business and the cool stuff that we have going going on over here at PMC. Love it. Well, thank you again for stopping by and dropping the knowledge. Christine, thank you. You know, I love being with you and in front of your audience, so I very much appreciate it.
What did you guys think of Christina? Love her, right? Love her advice, how specific it is. And I feel like I can take action on it immediately, such as coming up with ten podcast topics using AI or asking your audience what they’re listening to. So don’t hesitate. Go get yourself on some podcast. Listen to Christina. Check out her website.
We’ll put it in the show notes and let’s get our audiences built up, shall we? Let’s do some list building so we can go out there in a bigger way. And if you want any support with your course or your marketing, check out our Done for you course and marketing services course creation boutique dot com slash course. We’d love to learn more about your course in your business and perhaps even work with you.
Until next week go create be you and be brilliant and get it done.