#188: Love Addiction Course Success with Robyn Firtel

Welcome back to another edition of the Course Crucial Incubator podcast. I’m your host Gina Onativia, here to get you moving, to get you making progress on your course in your marketing and helping you build up the online based business of your dreams. And today I’ve got another amazing guest on. A therapist who knew her framework. For course, she knew she had the knowledge and expertise, but she got stuck on the steps in the tech and exactly how to move forward.

And then I got the honor and privilege of working with her as part of one of our done for You’s. And this was years ago. And she’s still using her course. She’s still selling it and using it really effectively with her clients. Now, if this sounds like you, by the way, if you feel stuck or overwhelmed by the steps or just not sure about the tech, think about applying for our done for you.

I’ll link to it in the show. Notes Course Creation boutiques com slash done for you. We take all the guesswork out of course creation. Get it done for you, get you out to market so you can reap the benefits of an online course. Now, my friend Robyn Firtel is a psychotherapist. She’s a licensed marriage and family therapist and also a certified parenting expert.

And Robyn reached out to me years ago wanting to create a love addiction course. Now, let’s pause here for a second. Love addiction. Think Rihanna and Chris Brown back in the day when they were together, just a completely unhealthy relationship. Now, when Robyn was talking about this years ago, no one else was talking about it and no one else had a course.

She was, I think, one of the first to market. Now, some of you have a great niche and you’re thinking, I need to get out there before someone else does. And I invite you to do that. I was watching one of those history of food shows with Tristan, with my 11 year old, and they were talking about the birth of the first breakfast heart.

And there was a product called Country Squares that made it out to market first, but then they couldn’t distribute widely. Then the Pop-Tart was born and Pop-Tarts just dominated the market. But they weren’t first to market. It was the brand called Country Squares. But country squares couldn’t take advantage and pop tarts took over. So Pop Tart truly was the first to market, and they’re huge today.

This was in the sixties. So I want you to take advantage of what’s available now. And even if it’s an imperfect course, put yourself out there. That’s exactly what happened with Robyn. She knew she had to get her content out there to change lives. She didn’t want to hesitate, and she trusted us to create the framework. So you’re going to hear her talk about that journey to create her course.

We’re also going to break down some of the pieces that she talks about and what’s next for her, because now her wheels are turning about her next course. So what she can do with her love addiction course. Let’s listen in. Robyn, it is so good to see you. Welcome to the podcast. Great to see you, too, Gina. It’s been a while.

Been a while. It’s a reunion of sorts. I love it. Why create an online course? Let’s just dig in right now. Like what first gave you the idea for overcoming love addiction? Well, it was an addition to my private practice, and I realized that people, you know, when they when they’re in therapy and the therapy, there’s so much education.

And that’s the part of the therapy I do, because it’s very structured for codependency. So I was spending a lot of time teaching people things that we should really be doing the therapy. But I had to teach them the model and the education that goes with it. So I thought, why not create a course so that I have this addition?

First of all, it’s additional income, definitely, right? It’s additional income. And it’s also a tool for my clients to use so that we don’t have to spend their therapy time educating them prior to therapy. So I wanted it as an adjunct to therapy and also as a way to make some passive income when I’m not working. And I knew when we when we talk so many years ago, you were also pretty busy.

And I think you still are pretty busy right now. And just as an alternative to to when folks if you can’t get them into your private practice, you would offer them this course instead. Is that still something that’s happening? Absolutely it is. And, you know, I was super intimidated by the whole process because, as you know, I’m not I am not technically savvy.

Like, I’m still like in my 80 the eighties using an answering machine waiting for I take notes with paper. I don’t do much. So I yes. So I you know, I was very intimidated by the whole online presence because of my inability to use technology. And so, yes, it’s also a way that I’m still thinking about different marketing strategies to sell the course to, like recovery centers because it’s on love addiction and codependency, which is now gotten a lot of, you know, a lot of attention since we first started working together.

Yeah. And is that one of the reasons why you reached out and you wanted a coaching consultant to help you? Because you knew kind of some tech you would have some tech challenges with it? Like what prompted you to reach out to me? Well, yes, it was it was the technical challenges as well as the time. Mm hmm.

Right. Like, the time is huge to try and do this myself. I mean, like I said, just to create the email account takes me 15 minutes, you know, so. And then also, I am more of a speaker than I am a writer. And so it was it’s difficult for me because I have so much to say and I’ve got, you know, so much education and experience.

Being a therapist, it’s hard for me to consolidate all of that while I’m writing. And so you were just such a great fit because I could write, you know, I could speak into the voice recorders and you would transcribe for me or I don’t think I could have done it honestly. Like I couldn’t have done that on my own.

Yeah, I. You were really great. You’re a great collaborator around Robyn, and you have such a wonderful framework. I think why this really works for you is what you were saying in the beginning. You had this foundation that you were teaching again and again, right? You were laying the groundwork. Yes. And that was perfect. Fit into your course to say here, you can learn this on your own.

And are they watching it really before they work with you? Are they? Oh, yeah. Okay. They’re watching it before they work with me during the time they’re working with me. And then also after I mean, I have clients that still watch watch the course to refresh because it’s also it’s also an addition for them so that if they forget certain concepts, they can go back and be like, okay, this is happening in my relationship or this is happening at work, or this is having my friendships and I don’t know how to use boundaries, I don’t know how to talk, I don’t know how to listen.

Like I can’t remember what Robyn and I discussed two years ago. So they’re able to log in and watch the section on boundaries, right? Or like Elsworth, they are having a hard time. They’re feeling shame about something that happened and they don’t know how to repair it themselves. So they go back and listen. So it’s very helpful in that way.

And then again, saves me a lot of time for re-explain splaining things. Yeah, that’s so great. You just refer to the course. One of the things I love about your course is you are prolific, right? You’re a prolific creator. Like you said, you knew your model and you were just it would flow with you. And we did those direct to camera intros, which were really great.

And then we did slides with audio and just it was a really nice combo. Do you feel like the slides with audio took some of the onus off of you in terms of like having to deliver all of it direct to camera? Exactly. Yes, it was. It was also it’s not only that it was easier for me, it’s also was is it’s easier for the people that are watching the course because it’s not just I always tell them I’m like, you don’t have to read anything you can if you want, but it’s mostly me talking to you.

So if you are writing, driving your car, you can just listen to the course like you don’t have to and you can do it when it’s convenient for you. So I think that was definitely helpful. Like both the audio you transcribing me, sending you the voice recorders and you transcribing as well as the slides and having interest. So it’s not you know, I get you know, I get bored easily.

So I wanted the course I wanted the course to not be boring. Oh, it’s not boring. Boring. It’s information packed. And, and when I gave you my talking points, you were able to kind of consolidate and get to more of the point of what I was trying to say. Yeah. And also made it fun. So the slides definitely make, you know, make it very palatable for the audience as opposed to like a continual lecture.

Yeah, one thing that stood out for me is that we use some evocative imagery in that course, and you weren’t afraid to push it. So I applaud you for that, Robyn, because some experts are scared too. Like, like there is you know, people are fighting and they’re they’re passionate. And yeah, what made you just want to kind of go for it in terms of that branding?

Well, I wanted it to be real life, right? So like relationships, marriage, partnership, you know, parenting, working with people. And you see what’s going on in the world right now. I mean, people just don’t get along. They just don’t. And it can get, you know, behind closed doors, you see these Instagram images of people’s families and behind closed doors.

They’re having a hard time. You know, a lot of people are having a hard time in their relationships, in their relationship with themselves and others. So I wanted it to be, you know, more real about. So, you know, it’s not like cookie cutter. I didn’t want it to be cookie cutter and like, idealistic, I wanted it to come off like, Hey, you know what?

This is what I struggle with. Yeah, and it does. It’s raw. It’s real. Like just not being afraid to go for it. Was there was there something that surprised you about the process in terms of. I know. Did it feel like a lot? Well, you know, I honestly, you were so I needed someone that was super patient and would take my ideas, consolidate and be able it was a relief more that I could come up with all this stuff in my head and that someone could take the material and put it into real life.

Right. Like it was like. So that surprised me. I thought for sure you’d be like, Oh gosh, Robyn, like, this is just too much of your ideas and I can’t possibly do this. Like, I can’t write the script. I can’t. I thought I’d have to do more to be honest. And also, I mean, the emails that I sent you because I’m not technically savvy, like, what was the password?

What was this? And you, even after we were done with the course, you still took the time to remind me of things and help me. Like, I felt like you really cared about, about the work and how it was going to help the community at large. Right? So it wasn’t just for you, like, for me, it was that surprised me.

Like, you know, really cares about what I’m doing and what I’m trying to help in the community. It wasn’t just about. So that surprised me. You don’t find that now? Sarah Oh, thank you. I mean, I do care deeply. And not just because you’re when my done for you awesome experts, it’s like I know the impact that can make.

And one of the things I love about working with done for you experts and especially you, Robyn was I learned I get to learn from you right and and before we have to on this call the first thing you ask me is how stressed end right. Because we’ve had so many we had so many discussions about mom’s relationship with our kids.

And you would stress all the time, it’s so important, so important for us to love on him. And and this idea that and to relationships and everything. So so thank you. I got to learn from you and you’re always in my head in a really great way. But like, how how am I doing in terms of loving on trust in and relationship?

I love that. Gina And that’s so important because I think, you know, moms, the the role of the mother has kind of kind of put at the back burner in society. And then we see all these issues happening in the schools and mental health issues with kids. And it’s the most important thing that you’ll ever do, is to raise your child and to have that child have appropriate attachments.

Right. And so if you ever feel guilty of you know, that something else is more important, know your child is more important and you don’t get, you know, raises and bonuses and and all that. But you’re you’re actually, you know, half the time you don’t even get thank you’s right and right in there for those. But but building a child is really building society.

It’s building a community and it’s building the world. Right. So as a mother or a father, right. Like whatever role you’re in with the child, the teacher, a friend and mentor, it is the most important and critical time. And I see the results when it when, when those attachments aren’t there. So the preventative part of it is huge.

So I’m glad that you’re that you took that to heart with. Yeah. Oh, definitely. Definitely. I’m absorbing I’m a big sponge and going back to the course. How are you selling it right now? I know it’s on your website. Are you actively selling it or are you just really using it for a tool with your current clients? Yes, I the thing that I need to do more of, I think is market a little bit more, but I’ve sold, I think 60 of them so that’s pretty a fair number right there and each yeah so most most of the time is with my clients and I have had some inquiries from other people, but I think

once people get to know me a little bit more and they know that, wow, this is this is real help for love addiction and codependency and it’s 8 hours worth of education that you can keep. So mostly it’s mostly in my practice right now, but I’m looking to take it elsewhere. Well, I mean, let’s talk offline. We just said that you want to have a chat and I forgot it was 8 hours.

By the way. Can we just talk about that for a second? Yeah. How much how much content is in there? But I feel like and I remember we chunked it out part one, Part two, right? And they have to learn kind of the fundamentals of addiction. Yes. And then the modules and then they learned your framework. Right. But do you feel like your the students that go through it are overwhelmed or did we do a good job of kind of leading them through it?

Yeah, If they watched it all at once, they would be. So yeah, this is what I tell people. I say watch do like watch the childhood trauma part, watch the relationship stuff. In the beginning, the love addiction, love avoidant cycle, but then only watch until self-worth. And then when they had their first therapy session, we talk about what they listen to and how it applies and they also have a printout of the hallmark so I don’t have to keep sending them so great.

You know, my sending abilities aren’t good or so they have. All of it there. And then we take a break and then they sometimes they rewatch it, then they have questions about the first module. They and then then then I have them go to the second. So I really tell them, do each module over a seven week period.

On the other hand, if they’re not in therapy with me, it’s a supplement for therapy for sure not, but just alone. Like, just, just hearing the self-worth boundary part alone can be like just the boundary violations and like, how not to do that in your family. It could be, you know, your relationships will get like 30 40% better without if you implement it without therapy, right?

So it’s gonna be used for both self love in module as well, but definitely not all at once. Yeah. No not that’s a heavy overachievers with when they do that then I that’s a whole different session. I remember early on when you first built the course that you would go up to people at like dinner parties or something or you would talk it up.

Are you still talk talking it? I need, I need. You’re so good at that. Yes, I do. I need I need to get. That’s why I want to talk to you afterwards. Yes. Well, I feel like it’s such a like since we created the course, no one was talking about love addiction or code. No one. Now it’s everywhere, right?

Like sex addiction, love addiction, codependency. And unfortunately, there’s so much talk about it that there’s no real. Sarah, This is this specific therapy that treats it. It’s a specific education that treats it. It’s just like if you have a specific illness, you need a specific treatment. So a lot of therapists are treating it without being specific. So the person’s in recovery for the rest of their lives where we want you healed, signed, sealed and delivered.

And then you get to the next issue that you need to heal. But that’s okay. You were early to market. I thought about that, Robyn. You were very early to market and no one was really talking about this. I was just doing it 24 years. Yeah. And. And you were the first to say like, this needs to be in a course there.

And I love what you’re saying, though. I don’t want you treat you for life. Right. Because some people just like, put them on retainer. Right, right. But you’re there to to give them the tools so they don’t have to be on retainer for life. But early in a market. And you weren’t afraid to say like no one else is talking about this.

I’m talking about this. Yeah, well, yeah, and I am talking about it because I know there’s a recovery for it. And there is. And I don’t want people coming watching the course, going to therapy. And this is the other aspect that really came across well in the course is that when we identify childhood trauma and you were able to help me consolidate this too, it’s not about blaming our parents and then cutting them off because we’re in therapy right now.

I was having a dinner with people last night and they’re like, Oh, my sister went into therapy and she doesn’t talk to us anymore. Oh, really? Isn’t that just I have narcissism and the therapist never even met this person. Right? So the whole point of this course is for reunification to try and identify your childhood trauma, the mindsets you have as an adult and heal those.

It’s not about, you know, dividing up families, and that’s what it’s become now. Yeah, right. But the course really helped that get that across. This is for your health. This isn’t like victim. You could be a victim when you were a child, right. But an adult, you get to overcome that and not stay in that position. And I think that empowering messaging was also what made it stood out.

And and I’m curious what because sometimes I get experts like yourself, right, who are badasses in their own right. But maybe afraid to put out a course, maybe afraid to put out something packaged up. What gave you the confidence to know you could put your framework out there in a bigger way? Well, I give all the glory to God, I have to say that.

But more so is you, Gina. You actually. You did. You gave me. You were like my cheerleader and my coach at the same time. You gave me the confidence. I don’t know if I, if I had someone creating a course for me that said, do it all on your own, and then I’ll put It wasn’t like you said.

Okay, I’m just going to make it’s not like building a website. It was like you you walked me through it and I needed someone to actually walk me through it and say, No, this is easy. And also organize the whole thing, which, you know, therapists typically we’re not very organized. I’m kind of all over the place and you’re like, okay, this is the day we’re going to shoot.

These are the outfits you need. This is what I want you to say. Like, and then you had the when we did that shoot the videos, you had everything on the script. Yeah, right. So. Yep. So that someone to actually organize and do the can to help me, you know, minimize the content in my brain that there’s so much and organize it was what gave me the confidence.

It was definitely that and I tell it I just told my I referred my mom to you and I’m like, you have to use Gina. But there’s no one else that I would go to because I want to do a second one, too. So that’s when you talk about it’s going to be on sex and sex addiction and love avoidance.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I was like, If you think that was out there, then I’m going to be speaking. There is something that I was afraid to talk about the first time around. But now that the world has kind of gone absolutely crazy with vision, there are some things that I’m going to be saying that are very taboo.

Meaning, you know, when I say taboo, I mean about parenting, controversial issues. Get them controversial. Yeah, your kid. But right now, that’s what you’re going to attract and repel, right? Yeah, but that’s what you need to do. Yes. You to attract the right audience. Yes. Because take a stand to have a mask on. Okay. I love this idea.

And you do talk about love avoidance. I know a little bit in overcoming love addiction. So you can think about putting a teaser in there, too. So if you know that maybe the next step or you could put like a waitlist mentioned in there that, hey, if you’re interested in this, you know, sign up here or just email me or whatever it is, You know, it’s simple.

I will do something complex for a love avoidance you if you’re in a relationship with someone that has a third and third party that’s intense, like whether it’s alcohol or the person’s playing golf or they’re playing, they’re working too much and they’re avoiding intimacy, that is there is there are core roots to all of this. It’s not because that person’s a narcissist.

I get that word out of your vocabulary to percent of the population has that. Oh, okay. It’s heal. It’s because when you say that, it’s basically saying you’re a narcissist, you’re a borderline. There is no cure for you. And I’m not the problem that other person is. Yeah, right. So that’s a light into is real a real psychological trauma where a person was enmeshed by one of their parents and that when that’s broken, they’re able to have relationships, but they also need to be taught.

Wow. So am I. You need to be taught by you. Okay? Yeah. Well, yeah, by they need to be taught specifically specific treatment for that. Mm. Okay. That’s. That’s great therapy. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. You have your framework, so. Yes, I love it. And you’re ready. You’re ready because addiction, too, is eroticized rage. But that’s a whole different thing.

Okay. Yeah, we get we get. That’s a different audience, right? We need you for a next course. Okay, That sounds good. And where can listeners learn more about you? About the course? Yeah. So if you go to my website, Robyn Firtel are Obie Y and F as in Frank i r t e l, Robyn Firtel dot com. And if you want to download the course or look at the course, it’s Robyn for telecom slash course c0urc But Jean, I already know you know how to spell that so.

All right, that’s okay. We’ll put both in the show notes and just awesome. Just awesome to see you. Awesome, awesome, awesome. This is like the highlight of my day of my week. So thank you for being on. Yes. Wonderful to see you again. All right. What did you think about Robyn? Is she so awesome? I just love listening to her talk about relationships and I really take to heart every time she talks to me about trust in and I really appreciate all of her parenting advice, make sure you’re checking her out.

Robyn for telecom, her overcoming love addiction course, it’s amazing. And I’m not just saying that because I collaborated with her to create it, and if you’re interested in done for you apply at course creation boutique dot com slash course or send me a message to me on LinkedIn or on Instagram until next week. Go create be you and be brilliant and get it done.